My first batch of angelfish eggs

No, don't worry about the bump, he's got quite a hump, and big chests are something I associate with males with pronounced nuchal humps.

he has developed a nuchal hump at the same time aswell so now you've said that I'll stop worrying it's because the female has pecked him too much.

He is bigger than my female now too. He's also lost the black line through the eye ... or rather it's faded a lot. Some days you can just see the line and then other days I can't see it at all. I'm guessing this is all a maturing process?

I've found a better photo of him from side on. Now you've pointed it out he has got quite a pronounced hump

Akasha wrote:I just thought I'd mention it...

No problem, thanks. Hope I didn't sound ungrateful!

Hey those fish are looking nice

I would love a nice camera for the fish but it would probably have to be a Nikon / Cannon DSLR so that the lenses can be fiddled with to get the level of detail and clear focus I want.

my little canon powershot point and shoot has an aquarium setting which is really good. The Nikon bridge camera that I've just bought doesn't have that setting. Not sure if that helps you decide on which to look more into

You wern't ungrateful so no worries, and thanks. Both are definite adults now and they seem really bonded at the moment so maybe the next lot of eggs will do better

I suspect my pair are considering spawning. I noticed yesterday that female was showing the edge of her breeding tube but I didn't get excited as she's done this before and not laid eggs. This morning I walked into the room to find the male and female in full lip lock - I've not seen them like this for months. They carried on lip locking on and off for about 15 minutes and now they are following each other around the tank. I'm wondering if they are deciding on the safest place to lay eggs.

I'll keep an eye on them but I do suspect I'll be seeing a spawn soon.

Incidently, can anyone advise me on the possibility of taking the eggs away from them as soon as they are fertilised. I ask because on each occasion the male has eaten the eggs when the tank lights go out for the night. I'm not able to remove him as they are in a community tank and I don't have a space for a tank large enough for him now.
I do have a small 30 litre tank that I use for fry and I have considered the possibility of removing the eggs and trying to hatch and raise them myself away from Mum and Dad and my the rest of my community fish

If you're going away on holiday over the next few weeks and can't get anyone to assist while you're away, cancel the whole idea now.
Maybe they liked the waterchage

Key to setting up a new aquarium is having a mature fine sponge filter. I have done it in the past without, it just involved using the parent tank as a source of 'new to them' water.

If you don't have a mature sponge filter, buy one and set it running in the main tank, so that, at some point in the future, you can rely on it to get a tank up and running.

When in supermarket / chemist, buy some vinegar (21p) and some sterilizing tablets, the ones used for baby bottles can be found in asda for one or two pounds. If you can't find the tablets, they probably sell it by the bottle, but it's normally 3+ pounds.

Right now, you could trial your heater, to closely match the temps. If you know the heater is good, you don't need to do anything because you will transfer the eggs at the same point as you fill the tank. That way, no immediate temperature change.

Oh and this is the type of facility I want!
Watch Master Scalaire at work, in french language: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-WBQ23r7pw

Dean

Another video I like and have watch a few times :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTAbuTYGk0M

Hey Dean .. I've raised cories in this little tank - from eggs to large enough to be sold to the lfs. I've also raised some cuviceps fry and a couple of bolivian ram babies too so I'm well versed in setting up a fry tank.

My only worry is taking the eggs from the parents, can the eggs survive without the parents to care for them? With my rams and curvi's I let the eggs and wrigglers stay with mum and dad as both were good parents and great at guarding them. The point at which they lost them was at free swimming stage as my tetra's and harley's would feast on them during the night. Pulling the eggs from the angels straight after fertilization seems like a plan in this case seen as the male is likely to eat them again. If I had the space I'd move the angels into a tank alone and then remove the male back to the large community tank leaving just the female with the eggs. Due to lack of space this isn't an option but I have got space for the little 30 litre. I'm also a little concerned it won't be big enough for angel's once they are growing out.

Basicly these are the questions I need answered.

I have a sponge filter and a heater etc ... no problems there

Okay, here goes...

- yes the eggs can survive without the parents, when the eggs are in their own tank they don't need guarding from other fish, which is mainly what the parents do. You will most likely need to clear the white eggs off, at least twice a day. The quicker you remove the white eggs, the better chance the others have of surviving. 1 bad egg spoils the others around it, as you will see if you don't remove it.

- a 30lt tank is fine while they're small, depends how many hatch as to how long you can keep them in it. As a rough guess, I'd say you'd get about 1 month out of it.

See how things work out, it's a long road... but I will always try and help you out.

This is the video I had in mind for you just now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0MKwyHtw5Q

:-)

okay ... so now I'm running through my mind the possibilities. If they can stay in the 30 litre for a month will they be large enough by then to go into my main tank (rio 240) without fear of being eaten? I'm just trying to work out what I'm going to do with them once they out grow the 30 litre.

If that's not possible then I'm probably going to have to leave the parents where they are and let the eggs/fry take their chances. Such a shame I have such a lack of space here. I have a Juwel Rekord 800 sitting empty in my shed and that's perfect for the job I want to do but I've nowhere to put it now since I re-arranged my living room

I suspect that at 1 month old, the larger fish in the aquarium, including their parents would just chase and nibble at them until they die.

If you get them to 3 or 4 weeks old, I have some space to grow them on here. We can talk about that in 4 weeks!

I've no practical experience of raising the eggs away from the parents, but many breeders follow that approach. However, if using a 30 litre tank you will need to progressively thin the youngsters down to about a dozen individuals, which providing you carry out regular water changes should be OK for about 3 or 4 months, by which time they should be OK to introduce into the main tank with their parents.

okay thanks. If I can get there the young will be going to my lfs for sale as they have requested some ... but all that depends on so many things I can't really control.

My female still seems to be considering a spawn. She did look like her breeding tube had moved a little more earlier but as I said earlier - she's done this before and then changed her mind so I'm not going to get excited until I see it fully down

I'll keep you all informed

just spotted my male cleaning a leaf ... another sign that they're thinking about spawning. Her tube is a bit further out tonight too... time to start getting excited maybe

excited Akasha

The female has almost fully dropped her breeding tube so she's definitely going to to lay eggs. Both angels have also darkened in colour - especially on their fins. I've not seen them change colour before a spawn before so I'm hoping these are all good signs that these two might get it right this time.

I've decided to leave the eggs with mum and dad and see what he does this time. It's been months since the last spawn and they've both matured a lot. I gave it some thought and decided that I need to give them a chance now they are more mature. Both will be over a year old now as I've had them a year ... I'm guessing they will be 18 months old and so hopefully maturity has kicked in and they will start being better parents.

I'll keep you posted

Question: I know a lot of angel breeders use an upturned flower pot for the angels to lay eggs on but I don't have room for anything like that in this tank. I was wondering about popping a piece of perspex (if I can get some) up against the glass to see if they would prefer to lay eggs on that?
I have an lfs that sells proper spawning cones and I know they're the best idea and I probably could fit something like that into a corner...

What I'm hoping it to try and encourage them to spawn away from the tetra's ... if they lay eggs on a leaf in the open the eggs have little chance against my tetra's. If I can encourage them to lay in a corner shielded by plants then the eggs might have better chances and would be easier for them to guard.

Has anyone got any thoughts? The female looks like she's maybe 24 - 48 away from laying eggs. Her tube is much more exposed this morning but it's still not fully down. I could possibly go and get a spawning cone today but would a piece of perspex be better?

I don't have any tips for breeding angels in a community tank. I think I've previously likened it to giving birth in a bus station. Angels have been known to lay eggs on all sorts of surfaces, even the glass, so it doesn't really matter.

Good luck

They'll spawn on almost any flat, pieces of slate, broad leaved plants, spawning cones etc. About the only thing you can pretty much guarantee is that they won't spawn on the one thing you deliberately put in the tank for them to use.
The chance of raising babies in a community tank are close to zero, but if you're lucky they may manage to keep them to free swimming, at which point you can pinch a few for your 30 litre tank.
I wouldn't worry about where they choose to spawn, in my experience if they fail in one location, next time they try somewhere different, and once they start spawning again, they'll probably stick to a fairly regular routine for a few months.

well I got myself a spawning cone anyway ... I've probably wasted 9 quid but it's done now. I've put it in the front left corner as that's away from the hustle and bustle of the tank. I'm guessing they won't take the hint though.

My tank lights have just come on and they're still in full breeding mode. It looks like she's still in the process of lower her breeding tube - it's not fully out yet but this is normal for my female. It took her about 5 days last time from me seeing the beginnings of it to actually laying the eggs.

They're going round the tank cleaning various leaves all over the place ... it seems they've not actually picked their spot for sure just yet. It's just a waiting game now

I've just been talking to a guy on another forum who has wild altums - he's the angelfish guy on that forum. He's told me to pull these eggs if she ever gets round to laying them so that advice has come from elsewhere too.

I've been thinking about it and I think I need to pull the eggs, get them into my 30 litre and take the necessary steps from there.

So my reason for posting. Well I have two lfs that would like some of these angels and so I'm looking to raise around 20 if I can but I wanted to ask now if there is anyone on here that would like some?

They are Smokey Blushing angels

Deans_Angels wrote:If you get them to 3 or 4 weeks old, I have some space to grow them on here. We can talk about that in 4 weeks!

Anyone else?

thanks Dean. We'll cross that bridge if I get to it!!

I'm just trying to figure out how many to raise. When I raised some of my curvicep cichlids I was left with 18 young cichlids that no one wanted. In the end I just had to give them away to my fav lfs for nothing. I don't want to be in the same boat again. So now is the time to speak up if anyone would like a Smokey Blushing angel for their collection

still no eggs and I'm due a water change. I've also got a filter that's dropped dramaticly in flow so it looks like today is maintenance day .... hopefully a water change might make her drop the eggs she's holding

one tube fully down ... shouldn't be long now