Place your bets!

Haha, okay, so... Now that their breeding tubes have dropped further, I'm starting to think Big Smokey is the female. The breeding tube is far more blunted than that of Spots, and Spots is the main aggressor with the others. Plus I came in this morning before feeding and Big Smokey's belly is HUGE. Looks like a barrel with fins. xD Still no eggs, and both pairs seem to have slowed down their cleaning in favour of a territory dispute as both want the side of the filter. I'll be moving one of the pairs to the 20 gallon hopefully on Thursday once Nelson has vacated the premises, so we'll see what happens.

very interesting ... this is turning into a rollercoaster ride alright!

Keep us posted

Will do. I'll get some photos this evening and see what you guys make of Big Smokey's sudden weight gain. Although I've not seen the plec today, maybe she ate him. Certainly fat enough. xD

Breeding tubes. I find that the female will develop a 'V' shape just in front of her... bottom If you watch closely when she's depositing the eggs, you'll notice that it's a rubbery, flexible extension of her body which she pushes against the surface to help release the eggs.

Males on the other hand. I find that males will develop a slightly forward facing 'pipe' just in front of his... bottom This may come into close contact with the eggs, during fertilization, but I don't think it's designed (or necessary for it) to touch the eggs.

The V shape is far more noticeable than the pipe, which is quite thin. The two are quite distinct.

Hmm. I've always thought of it as the lead or eraser end of a pencil.. Males are the sharp nib bit and females the more rounded eraser end. That's certainly how it's looked on my old pair and the pinoys. Maybe mine are freaks? xD

Still no eggs. Pinoys have gone back into cleaning mode, smokies are doing a little cleaning but been more interested in investigating a bunch of elodea I dumped in the tank earlier today. xD I'm wondering if Spots is just too young. There's no doubt they're a pair, they're cleaning and absolutely inseparable, but Spots is under 6 months old still as he/she is from the younger batch.

They're in for a feast soon though, ordered frozen beefheart, bloodworms, cyclops with spirulina, daphnia with spirulina and a cichlid mix, in addition to the live BBS they get anyway. Spoiled rotten. xD

I've got a pair in breeding mode at the moment - both tubes are fully extended (although she's still refusing to lay the eggs) do you want me to see if I can get a clear photo of them both?

here we go in case it helps



The male is nearest the spawning cone in the corner, the female behind him. With the male there's nothing much to see, his tube is so thin and barely visable. The females is really obvious. I do have another older photo of my female taken about an hour before she started laying eggs. This is it



Hope those both help

Yeah that's what I mean by pointy end and blunt end. :p The pinoys look like that currently, as of yesterday, but the smokies are a little behind, you can barely see the tubes as they're not extended fully yet. Just the very very tip of each, it's difficult to see what shape it is. And they won't stay still long enough for me to get a proper look. -.-

hope you manage to figure this out Blither, perhaps they're gonna make you wait though like my pair currently. She's been lowering the breeding tube for days but still no eggs. I expected them at the weekend and then last night she was looking like she was gonna lay em. I expected to get up to eggs but nothing... the tube is still down as you can see ... I really don't get it!

Haha, I know, they're teasing me I'm sure. I think I'll get pinoy eggs either today or early tomorrow, but I'm stumped with the smokies. They're having periods of focussed cleaning and displaying, and then just sort of wander off and get distracted. xD

Your male is a beast.

It'll be their first time though and they're both young, so maybe they've just not got the hang of it yet.

would you believe my male is at least a month younger than my female? He's huge compared to her. He's got a massive nuchal hump and a large chest aswell. Both these angels are from the same source, I've no idea if they are related but I suspect they might be.
I'd love to see what their young one's will come out like ... I just wish they'd get on with it!

My pair are about 18 months old so both still young too. Maybe that's why they're dithering with laying the eggs. They are also as you describe too - one minute cleaning leaves and flirting with each other the next they're wandering off and looking bored. I see them as grumpy teenagers!

Well, he's stunning. I hope you get some big chunky babies!

The pinoy pair are just coming up to 7 months and on their second spawn, Big Smokey is the same age. Spots is younger, maybe around 5-6 months. I seem to be promoting teenage pregnancy somehow. xD

lol! Your doing better than me ... these two are rubbish parents - or at least they have been so far. This coming spawn will be number 6 (I think) and on each other spawn they've left the eggs unattended or eaten them. I'm planning to pull this next batch of eggs if they do it while I'm around

Sadly the pinoys' first spawn got eaten overnight, I think by one of the other angels or possibly the plec as the parents were still guarding the spawn point the next day. They were doing a great job up until then though!

And I've literally just glanced over at the tank... They're spawning as I type. I'm not getting too bad at this spawn time predicting business.

you lucky thing! I'm just wondering if mine laid the eggs after lights out last night, allowed them to get eaten and now what I'm seeing is my female retracting her tube... the breeding behaviour seems to be calming down and I'm a bit confused

Aww, maybe. I'm wondering if the smokies are hesitating because the pinoys won the turf war over the filter, and now they've lost their spawning spot. They've started picking at a plant over the other side now but keep drifting back over to look at the pinoys.

could be ... guess you'll have to wait it out a bit more :/

I just wish I had more space and then I could move these angels into a tank on their own away from the other community fish and threat of eggs being eaten.

my pair are back to cleaning leaves again ... I'm confused.com!!

any updates on Spots and big smokey Blither?

Not much to report, they were cleaning right up til this morning, but I've had to move all the fish to temporary tanks while I drain the big tank for the new jungle aquascape. I'm still thinking Big Smokey is female, the tube has descended slightly more and is looking decidedly bigger and rounder than that of Spots.

my pair are cleaning various spots at the moment. I've seen my male cleaning the new spawning cone this afternoon so I'm hoping they might have got the message!

Ooh yay! Good luck!

thanks! same to you

They're back in their newly planted home and the smokies are cleaning in earnest. I'm expecting eggs within the week, and breeding tubes are now fully extended... Big Smokey is without question the female of the pair. Spots is getting very aggressive and they've now claimed the title of dominant fish from the pinoys.

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