Hello from Wirral

Hello folks,

Returning to fish keeping after a long while out.

Have a new Jewel Rio 240 Aquarium and stand that will be set up Tuesday, today being Sunday.

I am interested in setting up an Amazonian Bio kind of Aquarium but don't want totally daroyk water but enjoy the look of the driftwood etc.

I like White Diamond and Black Lack Angel fish but want to stay specific to the Central & South American Angel fish.

I also want them as larger fish to be n a community with South & Central American Dwarf Chiclids.

I like the Altum Angel fish too but not yet sure how to spot the difference between them and ones that look nearly the same.

Also interested in opinions on stocking and numbers for the 240L

Hi and welcome to the forum

I'm no expert on angels - I'm still learning having only had mine just under a year. I also have a rio 240 and did have 4 angels in it originally but after I got a pairing the spare two females had to be re-homed due to aggression. I think it's always best to get your angels very young and I believe 6 is often the recommended number.

I also had a pair of laetacara curviceps dwarf cichlids in my tank but I recently lost the female and my male angel has started to pick on the lone male curvicep a bit now. Curviceps is holding his own, he just swims off into the plants and because he's much smaller he can go where the angel can't get. I'd say be a little wary of adding too many cichlids to one tank. At one time (when I had my Rio 180) I had my curvicep pair, plus a Bolivian Ram pair and 2 angels (sex unknown but I suspect both female) The problem I had was that cichlids release hormones into the water and so once one pair wanted to breed it set off the other's and then it turned into a territory war. In the end I had to re-home the angels. I only got new angels after the rams passed on.

I like the idea of Bio-topes ... this is their natural enviroment and some of the dwarf cichlids will totally appreciate the stained water. I am planning a bio-tope myself at some point. It's just getting round to it!

Thanks for the reply, I did want the Angels as the ' show piece' in my 240, I intend to set up other tanks and eventually have the spare box room as ' The Fish Room'

I am already considering a 20 Gallon fry raising tank next to this one.

I will have tons of hiding places with bogwood/driftwood , stone cave ect a the bottom.

I will post pics once set up.

Anybody else with opinion on my post will be welcome too

I was also think of 6 juveniles as from reading I have done this far ts the best way to get them to pair off.

Hi & welcome to the forum.

I like the Altum Angel fish too but not yet sure how to spot the difference between them and ones that look nearly the same.

There are currently 3 recognised species of wild angels, Pterophyllum altum, P. scalare & P. leopoldi although it seems quite possible that P. scalare may be split into more species at some point in the future. All wild angels have the same basic colour pattern of silver body with four vertical black bands, one through the eye, one at the root of the tail & two body bands.
The main difference between them is in body shape, altums have a tall body higher than it's long, with a pronounced snout. They also grow larger than other angels.
Leopoldi by contrast have a squat body a dorsal fin that is usually held slightly backwards & sometimes have extra or partial bands. P. scalare are between the other two, both in body shape & size.

This isn't my photo but these are altums :-


notice the way the front body band gets wider at the top, the shape of the head & snout, and the faint bands between the main body bands.

This is one of my scalare


It's not total clear to what extent domestic angels are hybrids of the the three different species, and to what extent the different wild populations have contributed to mix. This fish is 50% domestic & 50% manacapuru. Manacapuru being an area in Brazil, comparatively close to the Rio Negro where Altums originate from. Many consider the scalare from this region to be an intermediate form. Manacapurus, at least those from lake manacapuru, have distinctive red colouration on their backs, like this one :-


Then, if you weren't already confused, there are Rio Nanay fish. These are scalares fro the rio Nanay, but they're often misnamed as Peruvian Altums. These have a more altum like profile, but are smaller with very distinctive markings :-



most notably orange blotches, and black spots on the flanks, and often a black mark between the two body stripes where the dorsal fin meets the body.

Finally leopoldi's - this isn't my photo


as you can see, shorter, backward pointing dorsal fin. more elongate body, I always think of them as looking like a cross between a festive cichlid and a scalare!

If you're after a biotope type tank, then strictly you should avoid any of the domestic colour varieties, and I'd avoid altums as they are more expensive and temperamental and hard to breed. But if you're not wanting to be too purist about it, then the key is to choose fish you like the look of.

Wow great post Pterophyllum great info and pics. Thank you so much  

I am willing to pay a bit more for altums. I have  never done anything by half had some experience keeping and breeding koi Angel fish with my Dad as a youngster.

I am trying to be a little on the purist side of things. I have kept Community Aquariums before and just want something that little bit different.

I have heard and seen where Angels have been wrongly labelled.th

I would however be happy with area specific species for now until I expand my knowledge and its great to have people such as yourself.

I have a form of Autism called Aspergers, and the kick-back side of that is I am often able to remember great amounts of technical info from picr the s and internet sites ect. I guess its a pay off for the other difficulties I have.

I know I will get majorly concerned if everything in my tank is not area specific or have a  technically explained reason as to why something is so.

Its been explained to me that keeping fish will be a good wqy for me to have an interest and out for the vast amount of info I am able to remember

My condition of results in rituals and repetitive behaviour so I that having a biotype Aquarium will give me another positive outlet for example keepin an eye on water quality ect.

My main, major concern is getting totally the wrong kind of Angel. I have been able to identify the African species and recall them all.

So area specific IE Central and South American are where I want to be right now then further get into being very specific as I gain knowledge.

The only other thing is I don't is the water a total tea colour so I guess I would call my 'set up' Amazon Inspired...

I think some yellowing from a bit of bog wood can look quite attractive. Amazonian "black water" is so named because the river looks black, but there's a lot of water in a river, take a small quantity of that water & put it in a fish tank, and whilst it looks brownish, it's not as dark brown as you might imagine or expect it to be!

EddieC wrote:...having a biotype Aquarium will give me another positive outlet for example keepin[g] an eye on water quality ect.

The Amazon is crawling with life, both in and out of the water. It's impossible to re-create a dead ant floating past or use the exact substrate and if you're 'fishkeeping' it would be fairly pointless introducing predators. Amazon Inspired sounds good to me.

I'm sure fish keeping can be good for your health, it gives me a reason to get up on a morning (hungry fish)!

Welcome to the forum.