Mosquito copper or gold blush?

Hello,
I purchased 4 of the "mosquito coppers" from rare-aquatics, and they arrived on Tuesday.
They are young, about 6cm diameter, but healthy and lively. They have fitted in well with my similar sized smoker platinum blues and the rest of the angelfish gang.
 
I am not convinced that they are a new species "mosquito copper" but are nonetheless
good quality gold blushers.
The golden colour has actually intensified since the pic was taken on my mobile - which was day one of their arrival.  The gold is all over and about the same intensity and colour as a golden gourami, and they have a deeper golden orange crown and pink blush on their gills.  They do look beautiful and contrast well with the blue, white and silver of my other angelfish.
 
Im hoping obviously to grow them on and start breeding with them.  I have been told they "breed true" but am also interested in other options.
 
Let me know your thoughts
BW
J

To my mind, there's no question that these are gold blushing, the question is, "is there something else besides that defines a copper mosquito, or is it just a marketing name for well coloured gold blushing angels"
The photo that Paul posted in this thread http://www.uk-angelfishforum.org.uk/t545-what-do-you-think-of-these is, in my opinion, distinctly different from the fish you've posted.
The photo Paul posted shows a fish where the entire body is orange/yellow, with a few red spots on the back, your fish, nice 'though they are, appear to be much more classical gold blushing with gold crowns and white bodies.
I'll be interested to see how yours develop, please keep us informed!

Yes I agree with you that they are gold blushing angels. They were however bought from rare aquatics on the bases of the same image as you mentioned above. I decided to take the risk of the expense. £97 for the 4 angels including delivery. The main reason is that I feel that it is important to be innovative and have a long term view when breeding angel fish. I want to take risks and introduce good colours into my future stock. It would be fantastic in my opinion if here in the UK we could develop our own "species" of new colours, much in the same way as I guess Ken Kennedy did and also much in the same way as the US are doing with their "High Coloured" orange/red Koi. I find it exciting to see how you are developing, you blue strains and I am certain I will learn a lot from your experience. I'll certainly let you know how I'm getting on.
BW justin

Hi Justin,
Over the years I've noticed a high degree of inbuilt skepticism in the angelfish community....

When platinum angelfish fish appeared a lot of people simply dismissed them as, "washed out golds".
When Ken first started posting photos of the fish he was producing he was accused of using photoshop; and despite his fantastic efforts, there are some who don't recognise Raiko's work developing the Bulgarian Seal Point (note this is due to a gene mutation he has named as Bulgarian Green - bg)

IMO, part of the reason for this skepticism is that there have been a number of cases of fish sold where the colour seems to result either from chemical treatment or from a diet designed to enhance colour. Add to that breeders who don't understand the genetics underlying their fish, and the commonly used naming conventions; and those who do, but have discovered that they can get a lot more for their fish if they give them a fancy name and you can understand why many are wary of embracing new varieties!

Personally I try to keep an open mind about new varieties, but it can be difficult.
Finally on a pedantic note...
There are 3 recognised species of angelfish, Pterophyllum Altum, P. leopoldi and P. scalare. Although it's quite possible that scientific revision may split these into further species, at present all domestic variants are considered to be P. scalare.
The different domestic forms are not different species but should be referred to as "forms", "varieties" or "strains". There is a subtle distinction between "strains" which breed true and a "variety" which doesn't have to!

Yes I absolutely take your point. I hope to see both new "strains" and also new "varieties" develop
BW
J

Hi Justinr,
Its nice to see you purchased some of the fish from rare aquatics but as rob stated they dont look like the one in the pic i posted that rare are useing to advertise the Mosquito Copper angel.
Are they showing less colour in your pic due to the camera you are useing or are they just not as good overal as the one in the original pic used by rare, they do look very much like a well coloured gold blushing angel but very different to what is in the original pic.The reason i ask is because after seeing the pic from rare my mrs (AKA the BOSS) was about to bite the bullet & pay the price & buy me 6 but now im not so sure i want any after seing your pic.

Paul..

Hi Paul,
They do not have the colour distribution posted on the advertisement on rare aquatics. I am certain that they are sunset blushes. The camera was an I-phone so not great quality and the orange colour is nice but limited to the crown. They have the pink gills and a pale yellow body with white irredescent patches. They are definitely sunset blushes. They Re healthy and lively I have no problem with that but not what they were advertised as....
Have you seen the red koi on mellow aquatics? I'd consider importing them on an overnight via FedEx
What Re your thoughts?
Justin

Hi Justin,
Thanks for the insight on the fish you bought & i hope you get something nice out of them as & when they are ready to breed but i think i will tell the mrs to save her money.
Regards Mellows fish they are stunning & i would happily give them tank space,as far as having them shipped to the Uk the cost of the shipping is just way to much.But if you can get them here at a resonable cost i for one would have some.

I bought 5 of these 'Mosquito Copper' angelfish yesterday morning, hoping to start a breeding program with them. I was absolutely disgusted when I got them out of the box to find they looked like the sunset blushers that I already own !  They have settled lovely and are eating well but colour still remains very anaemic. I complained to Rare Aquatics, will give them a few days to develop any colour which I can't see happening then will be opening up an ebay dispute as these fish are not as described and certainly nothing like their photo. Plus I spent well over £100 on them  

Hi Lillith & welcome to the forum.
I'm sorry to hear that the fish you received are nothing like the ones that had been pictured in the sellers add but you are not the 1st member of the forum to have bought these Mosquito Copper / Gold blushing angels. . I hope you get your dispute settled with the seller if they dont colour up in a few days.Its always a risk buying fish you havnt seen in the flesh as a picture can be deseaving.I only take that chance myself if i know the seller.there are always breeders on here that breed some very nice fish & you normaly get to know what the fish have been bred from & what the fish you are buying should look like.Here is a link to a thread i started on these fish.
http://www.uk-angelfishforum.org.uk/t545-what-do-you-think-of-these

Paul

Hi Paul, thanks well I have just messaged the seller via ebay as these fish of mine are still a very pale colour and have not coloured up at all. They look nothing like the photo and I am furious that I paid £20 each for them. They may well of bought them in good faith from Glaser in Germany but what they have recieved is certainly nothing like the photo  .
I have asked for them to send a courier to pick the fish up and I will be opening an ebay dispute, I'm awaiting a reply now.
Julia.

Hello,
I have just spoken with Nick from Rare aquatics now for the second time.  I spoke with him 3 weeks ago about the fact that my Mosquito Copper looked remarkably like Sunset Blush.  He advised me at that point that my temperature needed incresed by 2 degrees and re-assured me that the adults he had were solid orange.
Dutifully I increased the temperature.  Nothing has happened.  They remain sunset blush. One has sunsequently died.
I called today again to speak with him to find more information about the copper and to state that they looked like sunset blush. He advised me that no-one else has complained about them.  I then asked to see a picture of his adults and he then advised me that he has not ever had any nor has he seen a picture of them.  His suppliers (Glasers) in germany have refused to supply him with any pictures of adults as "it would give their breeding secrets away."
I feel that I have been dupted here, and it seems that I am not the only one.  I have given him until friday to find out for certain the genetics of the Mosquito Copper. I wil post an update here.
 
Regards
Justin

I mainly keep and breed apistos but saw rare aquatice ad for mosquito copper angels and decided to buy some. Unlike most of the above, I live close enough to pick them up in person. I bought 5 about two months ago and they are all thriving. In fact, as I type this, two seem to have pairled and are busy cleaning a leaf and chasing off everything that comes near.
Their colour has improved considerably since I brought them home but the main body colour is more like a washed out yellow than solid gold. I am no angel expert but, whether they are mosquito copper of gold blush, they are beautiful fish and i am glad I bought them

Welcome Nextax,
Glad to hear that you're pleased with yours. Would love to see some photos of them.

I am a total dork with computers but i will try in the next couple of days to post some

Hello and welcome to the forum

I'm really keen to see how yours develops. Out of the 4 I bought originally only one remains. He is healthy but looks like a sunsetblush

I'd value a picture of yours and would also very interested indeed to see what any offspring look like
Regards
Justin

My photography is nearly as bad as my computer knowledge. Colours are a bit better than in photo

Your photography is good
Thanks for posting them. Look similar to my one remaining

Thanks.

I assume that, like other people involved in this, that you had yours delivered to you. I live about an hours drive from crewe so went there and picked mine and had them in their tank just over an hour later. I did have problems with one being bullied but I separated it and fed it up for a couple of weeks then put back with the others and have had no problems since.
As they are still not fully grown, I hope colour will continue to improve over the coming weeks. Although I bought these for my living room display tank, I would like them to breed so am interested to know what variety they are so that I can sell them on with the correct name. Any confirmation would be much appreciated.
I have read that it is best to remove eggs and incubate in a separate tank. any advice from you experts would be appreciated. I have 5 angels in a 5ft tank with a shoal of rummynosed tetras, 10 small corys and two hopopotoma suckermouth cats.

Since my last post, I have bought three more fish from a guy in Manchester who was selling because they were beating up his other fish so I how have eight. These have split into three pairs and two unattached. All three pairs have spawned (two of them twice) but eggs have been either infertile or were eaten. As they are still juveniles, i hope that, given time, they will breed successfully. There is one pair that is particularly dominant and I will separate them once I have a suitable tank empty.

When you get them to breed, it will be very interesting to see how the youngsters develop. If you have the space/inclination splitting them into two groups, and feeding one group a fairly standard diet, and the other a diet high in carrotine (Cylopeeze for example) might be an interesting experiment.

I hope to have a 4ft tank available soon so will try what you have suggested. I mainly breed apistos and find black mosquito lavae really helps to bring them into breeding condition. Have you tried this with angels and, if so, does it have the same effect?

I think almost any live, or indeed frozen, food can help, although in general I tend just to feed Tetramin flake. That said I've had several pairs recently where they spawn, but struggle to raise fry from them. I'm therefore going to clean and sterilize each breeding tank in turn, and will probably try a mix of frozen foods to see if that can improve things.
In general I tend to use bloodworm & brine shrimp, but I think the more variation you can throw into their diet the better!