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Post  Blither on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 17:02

Hi all!

After having some gorgeous angels from Rob (2 pinoys, 3 blue smokies and a paraiba), the two pinoys have paired off. However, I didn't particularly want these two to pair. Typical. xD

I have a favourite blue smokey who I'd love to see pair off, but I'm not sure if he's a he or she's a she. I'm leaning towards 'he'. Any guesses? He/she is around 6 months old according to Rob and is the biggest of the three from the same batch, which includes the two pinoys.

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Pterophyllum on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 17:14

That's a nice photo of him or her.
If you look at the pattern of scales immediately behind the gill & in front of the smokey pattern, you can tell that it's het. for pearlscale. As to sex, I'd say 60% female:40% male.

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Blither on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 17:17

Pterophyllum wrote:That's a nice photo of him or her.
If you look at the pattern of scales immediately behind the gill & in front of the smokey pattern, you can tell that it's het. for pearlscale. As to sex, I'd say 60% female:40% male.

Ah.. So p/+? I'll have to factor that into my enormous genetic lists of potential fry. xD A female would be good news, as I could attempt to pair her with the nice confirmed male pinoy from the pair.

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Akasha on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 18:14

my bet is female ... and no, I'm not betting money lol


Either way he/she is a stunning fish Smile
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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Blither on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 18:31

Thank you, I'm very fond of him/her. It'll be a shame if he/she doesn't pair and I have to rehome, as I can only keep one pair. Sad

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Deans_Angels on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 19:04

Without looking at the picture, the probability of female is 0.5 ha ha!

Pearlscale het looks nice. I think the 'split' ventral fins (for want of a better description) indicate that it has a least one dose of veil?

I would say the body shape looks quite angular, so with no masculine signs showing, I'd edge my bets for a female.
Maybe you're leaning towards male, because 'he' is one of the larger in your selection.

That is a nice fish, if I saw that in a tank I would have to buy it immediately.

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  wildreddeer on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 19:59

Cool
Now thats what I call a nice Angel.
Wish I was the owner.
Me knows where that's come from.
Looking at it.
It's worth every penny.
You could be quids in there.
Trust you have a nice parner lined up.
Rolling Eyes
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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Blither on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 21:31

Deans_Angels wrote:
Pearlscale het looks nice. I think the 'split' ventral fins (for want of a better description) indicate that it has a least one dose of veil?

Yep, all 6 of my juveniles are veils. Smile I know a lot of people dislike superveils, but I fancied a bit of a challenge in raising some with nice straight finnage and I'm a sucker for big nicely patterned fins.

This one has really blossomed since buying, and all 6 are growing very rapidly although the paraiba is still noticeably smaller than the others.

I was basing the 'he' on the size and the fact the head shape is very similar to the proven male pinoy, but clearly I'm missing something. xD I'll try to get some photos of the other 5 for you guys, and see what you make of them in terms of males/females.

Wildreddeer, the partner I had in mind was the male pinoy, assuming this one is female. I'm not happy about the fact he's paired with another pinoy, especially after talking genetics with Rob. :p

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Pterophyllum on Thu 02 Jul 2015, 22:31

I'll try to get some photos of the other 5 for you guys

Yes please. They're obviously thriving in their new home.

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Blither on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 00:19

Well, they're not really playing ball, but I snapped a few. My camera isn't great and the glass needs a clean though so I'll try again tomorrow after my weekly 60% water change, hopefully then the blue will show up better with less tannins.

This is the confirmed male pinoy, currently known as 'Ratbag'... They all have vague names for now so I don't get too attached and keep them all. xD He has some fin damage at the moment after spawning, the female is a bit bossy with him.

" />

This one without flash is more representative of his actual colouring...
" />

This is his mate, the female pinoy 'Battleaxe', who really wasn't keen on pictures. She has a streaky pattern in her dorsal fin. She also has a little fin damage after spawning, but both are healing well with Melafix...

" />

This is one of the smokies from the younger batch, 'Spots', who looks as if he/she will be similar to 'Big Smokey' from my first picture once a bit bigger...

" />

And his/her brother/sister, 'Stripes'...

" />

And finally, the paraiba, 'Little One'. He/she was a tricky one to snap and the photo came out really dark for some reason...

" />

They all look a little more yellow than in real life, I suspect the tannins are to blame! I apologise for any floaty bits, algae and marks on the glass, the day before water change day probably wasn't the best day to take pictures. xD

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  wildreddeer on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 09:49

All nice fish there.
Someone has chopped the nose of some, so wont be able to sex them. But as I am just going out for the day, on a north highland coastal tour, I'll reveil all the sexies when I return.
I'll keep the best on till last. Which is the one this topic started about
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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Blither on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 12:26

Thank you! ^.^

The photos seem to get cut off on the mobile site but they're showing up properly on my laptop if that helps?

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Akasha on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 15:06

the photo's all look okay on my laptop too if that helps.

I'm dying to know what sex they are .. I'm still learning Phil's sexing method so it'll be good to know if I got it right or wrong ... see if this pupil needs to go back to school or not Laughing

So the pupil says -

'spots' = male
'stripes' = leaning toward female
and 'little one' = hmm struggling but possibly male

How did I do
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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Blither on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 17:34

Akasha wrote:
I'm dying to know what sex they are ..

You and me both! Any guesses on 'Big Smokey'? :p

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Akasha on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 17:41

sorry I got his name wrong! I thought it was 'spots' so I think male but as I said ... I'm still learning Phil's method so I've probably got them all wrong!
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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Blither on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 22:18

Ah no, Big Smokey is the very first picture in the thread. There are three blue smokies, the other two are Spots and Stripes. Smile

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  wildreddeer on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 22:50

sugar sugar sugar.
Just spent a funny 30 mins composing a funny reply for you al. Sent it but nought happened. So here goes again.

Eyes down your starter for Male. Male. Male. or is it all female. Now lets see.

'Spots' Male

Stripes' Male

'Little One' Had it's head chopped of please try again with its head on. Laughing

And the one you have all been waiting for. Well at first I thought it was ? but I was hopping it was ? but my first has always been right. No matter how I look at it, I have even enlarged it 10 fold. But I still cant get away from it being
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
A MALE
.
Sorry
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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Blither on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 23:35

Haha. Just my luck! xD Hold on, I'll try and wrangle Little One.

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Blither on Fri 03 Jul 2015, 23:44



Cropped the existing one, is that any better?

Anyone want half a ton of male angelfish? xD

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Pterophyllum on Sat 04 Jul 2015, 00:23

Don't forget that one of them laid eggs, and one of them fertilized them, so at the very worst, you've got 5 different possible pair combinations, ie the female with any one of the 5 males, if just one other is female, that gives you 8 different combos.

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Blither on Sat 04 Jul 2015, 01:07

What would my chances of them pairing be if I just removed all but the nice smokey and the confirmed female pinoy, knowing now that they're a male and female? The female ('Battleaxe') has developed a lovely deep blue colour and has a nice shape to her, she was my backup choice for Big Smokey if he was indeed male. She's also slightly less aggressive than Ratbag (male pinoy), so this could work in my favour!

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Deans_Angels on Sat 04 Jul 2015, 01:36

Blither wrote:Anyone want half a ton of male angelfish? xD

Tanks waiting  bounce

In the Buying Juveniles topic:
http://www.uk-angelfishforum.org.uk/t817-buying-juveniles#5510

I 'random tested' the possible pairings: 100 groupings of 6 angelfish, ten times over.
Most of those samples showed that the risk of having no pairs at all or only one pair was normally about 20%.
In one sample, it was as high as 33%!

So... you weren't that unlucky. It was quite likely to happen the way it has, given the size of the group.

---------
If I understand things correctly, the pinoy pair are likely to want to stay a pair if the group are kept together, as you don't want that pairing, you're going to have to separate them.

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Blither on Sat 04 Jul 2015, 02:01

Dean, if you want the male pinoy you can have him for free as I'd rather see him go to a good home than get money for him! I definitely don't want him pairing with the other pinoy so he'll need to be rehomed, especially if I have too many males already.

Plus I know you're wanting a few of Robs, the non paired angels will be up for grabs at some point too, once I'm happy with a pair. :p

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Deans_Angels on Sat 04 Jul 2015, 04:25

Offer accepted :-) Thank you

I've been looking at the photos posted. I think you've got 3 females and 3 males there.

If you look at the picture of the Bulgarian Green on this page:

http://www.the-aquatic-habitat.co.uk/news.htm

You will see a distinct horizontal line __ under its belly, and quite an angular \__ shape up to its nose.
I would say that's female, very much like a quarter past 10 on a clock.
You can imagine, if she were to lay eggs on a flat surface, it would be quite easy for her when her tube pops down ***v***

Now.. as for males, they have more of a relaxed slope (think 20 past 10 on a clock).

By my reckoning, if I rehome the male pinoy 'Ratbag', then I think you'll find that 'Stripes' and the fish in the 1st picture (which started this topic) are both female. 'Spots' and the paraiba 'Little One' look male to me. Time will tell.

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Re: Place your bets!

Post  Akasha on Sat 04 Jul 2015, 09:38

in the words of Meatloaf ... 'two outta three ain't bad' lol

the pupil needs to learn a some more

Sorry you didn't yet the answers you were hoping for blither :/
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