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Hello from Staffordshire! :)

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Hello from Staffordshire! :)

Post  Blither on Sun 17 May 2015, 14:36

Hi all!

I'm Alice, I'm from Staffordshire and I've been keeping angelfish for around 5 years. I'm in the process of setting up a new Juwel Vision 260 in a new house (one of a few tanks, also have another 4ft, a 2ft, and a smallish hexagon plus a brine shrimp hatchery and a quarantine tank).

Sadly lost the female koi of my breeding pair last week so looking to start over with some juveniles and hopefully get to enjoy watching the spawning/raising process again before too long. Smile

Thanks for having me!

Alice.

Blither

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Re: Hello from Staffordshire! :)

Post  Pterophyllum on Sun 17 May 2015, 14:49

Hi Alice,
Welcome to the forum

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Re: Hello from Staffordshire! :)

Post  Deans_Angels on Mon 18 May 2015, 14:23

Hi Alice, welcome to the forum.

You seem quite prepared, give it a year and you'll be swimming with them, so to speak. Where your last pair both koi / what did they produce? What do you fancy this time around?

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Re: Hello from Staffordshire! :)

Post  Blither on Wed 20 May 2015, 12:07

I had a koi female and gold male, they were producing kois and gold ghosts (I think they were ghosts, if my genetics are right!)

This time I'm planning to have 6 of Pteropyhllum's lovely blue angels to see what pairs I can get. Very Happy

Blither

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Re: Hello from Staffordshire! :)

Post  Deans_Angels on Wed 20 May 2015, 16:27

Well koi's always have a double dose of stripeless S/S so they are blushing, they are either:

Gm/Gm - S/S
Gm/g - S/S
Gm/+ - S/S

Golds by their nature have to have the colour locus g/g, but although they would look the same (same phenotype) they may actually be gold ghost g/g - s/+ (a different genotype).

If the cross koi x gold produces koi, it proves that the male is a gold ghost.

As for the koi parent:
If the cross produces a 50/50 split of koi and something else. Those other fish are White Gold Marble Ghost. The koi is therefore Gm/Gm - s/s.

If the cross produces a 25/25/25/25 split, you will always have 25% koi and 25% White Gold Marble Ghost. As for the other two 25%'s, it depends on the genotype of the koi, as follows:

If you have 25% Golds, these will be Gold Ghost and you will also have 25% Sunset Blushers. This would prove to koi to be Gm/g - s/s.

However, if neither of the above fit. You have 25% Ghosts and you will also have 25% blushing, both of which will carry a single copy of the gold allele. This would prove the koi to be Gm/+ - s/s. Otherwise known as a Blue Koi.

Anyway, that's the Science lesson over, time for Geography...

I would love some blue angels, but Robs is a bit far so I'm having to use a crayon Shocked
Get plenty is my advice, it'll work out more economical in the end.

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Re: Hello from Staffordshire! :)

Post  Blither on Wed 20 May 2015, 18:31

It's been a long day and that took way longer than it should have to sink in. xD So my male is probably a gold ghost?

This is the male, Nelson:


And a couple of babies from their last spawn:


The little koi(?) baby had some badly formed ventral fins but my sister took pity on him and claimed him! The gold ghost(?) baby had a lovely comb tail, looked just like his dad.

Blither

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Re: Hello from Staffordshire! :)

Post  Blither on Wed 20 May 2015, 18:36

In terms of buying loads, my tank is only 4ft and I don't want to have too many crammed in there. I'll need to rehome the non-paired ones and possibly any spare pairs if I get more than one. I'm terrible though, I get so attached to the little guys. Sad

But.. I'm only an hour and a half away from you, if you want any of them it's not so far to go!

Blither

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Re: Hello from Staffordshire! :)

Post  Deans_Angels on Wed 20 May 2015, 23:57

I don't think you'd have any problems moving the blue pairs on.

From what you said in your post (they produced koi) so Nelson is a gold ghost and looking at the picture a gold ghost veil (with combtail).

If Nelson had a sibling who was exactly like him, it proves that the late mum (rip) was: Gm/g - s/s. The koi your sister has, is the same as mum, but in addition there's a 50% chance that she is veil which is inherited from the dad.

When are you planning to make the Journey? just wondering Twisted Evil

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Re: Hello from Staffordshire! :)

Post  Blither on Thu 21 May 2015, 07:59

The weekend after next. Most likely a Sunday, I believe Rob's shop is open til 4.30 on Sundays?

Is there any physical difference between a gold and a gold ghost? I'm assuming it's just a genetic thing cos I can't tell the difference. :p

As for the babies, I only ever got golds and kois, but my spawns were hit and miss; I had problems with sudden die offs, sometimes the wrigglers would never go free swimming and just not thrive. I was hand raising them and it took me a while to get it right, too. So it's possible that any other less hardy strains they produced got wiped out with them. D:

Blither

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Re: Hello from Staffordshire! :)

Post  Pterophyllum on Thu 21 May 2015, 08:22

Is there any physical difference between a gold and a gold ghost?
Not as adults, but juveniles non ghosts often show faint lines where the vertical black bands should be, so if you've got a batch where there will be a mixture of the two and you want to sort them visually, you can do it, but only when they're a couple of months old.

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Re: Hello from Staffordshire! :)

Post  Blither on Fri 22 May 2015, 12:12

Ah, I see. He was a P@H fish (I got lucky and he was a good healthy fish, same can't be said for my neons! Never again!) so I had no way of knowing his genetics.

Blither

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Re: Hello from Staffordshire! :)

Post  Deans_Angels on Fri 22 May 2015, 15:05

Blither wrote:so I had no way of knowing his genetics.

In most cases you can have a 'good guess' based on what they look like (phenotype). If there is other information available about their parents (or even their parents parents etc) then that helps, as does any relevant breeding results (if the eggs were lost, nothing can be deduced from that other than identifying the sex of the fish).

There are often question marks '?' about a fish and this can sometimes be supported with other information, for example, someone may say (and I'm not quoting anyone in particular): "There's a 50% chance that these golds carry a single copy of the albino gene".

So you might express that as: g/g - a?/+

Deans_Angels wrote:Though I think a better format would be: g/g - P(a)=0.5/+
'P'robability of (albino) is equal = to 0.5

Never say never Very Happy


Last edited by Deans_Angels on Fri 22 May 2015, 15:10; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Where would we be without the edit?)

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Re: Hello from Staffordshire! :)

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