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Post  Deans_Angels Thu 21 May 2015, 12:06

Teamwork makes the dream work!

It's quite normal for an angel to nudge another to show their intentions. It's kinda cute Surprised

All that new water is likely to have got them in the mood for love. They're probably thinking its best to procreate before she moves the tank again! You might have to put some soft music on for them, light a few candles Laughing Good luck!

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Post  Akasha Thu 21 May 2015, 14:47

lol Dean! Bit of Barry White?

I'm just gonna keep an eye on them. It makes a change not to see them bickering. The female has always been the bolshy one, the one that's bossed the male around. Since the move she's really calmed down so maybe the minor change around in the tank has done something.

All that's really changed is a couple of plants not in the same place as before and that means the plant that they used for egg laying is now over hung by an amazon sword. It's now not possible for them to use that for egg laying and the more I think about it the more I wonder if that's why she's 'sulking'.

I'm not up for moving the sword again to expose the anubias they used for eggs (it was hard enough re-planting it where it is with a root ball as big as my fist!) but it'd be interesting to see if she'd change behaviour again if I did.
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Post  Deans_Angels Thu 21 May 2015, 17:06

I have no idea who Barry White is... I just say random things, sometimes.

I'm sure they'll always find somewhere to lay eggs - they adapt when needs must - even in a bare tank.

Filters to make and fish to feed... my two pairs should be shipping out this weekend (my trial run of raising fry is complete) so my next lot of eggs should be from the Bulgarian Green Angels. That said, I do have some odds and ends (cobra, smokey and Peruvian F1) - so anything is possible in the run up to that event.

I think I need some platinum angels as they seem to throw plenty of blue around flower

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Post  Akasha Fri 22 May 2015, 16:18

I saw a beautiful pair of angels are York MA today. I'm not up on angelfish genetics but I think these were what is known as black lace angels. Both looked female but then I'm not wildreddeer!!

Fins were black, dark grey body with black stripes. They did look stunning and both quite young. It's possible they were a pair as they were stuck to each other like glue
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Post  Deans_Angels Fri 22 May 2015, 22:23

I like black lace (D/+) one that I have is so veil and combtail that it looks like it's ill and depressed most of the time, not really my cup of tea anymore. It wasn't too bad when I bought it, but overtime the veil has developed too far in my opinion.

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Post  Akasha Sun 24 May 2015, 10:00

I just thought I'd mention it Dean, knowing you've got some breeding programs going on and knowing York isn't too far for either of us. I think these two were too young to tell if they were going to be veiltails
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Post  Akasha Mon 25 May 2015, 12:31

my female has made a reappearance ... she was out all day yesterday and she wasn't leaving the males side. They were cuddled up all day on and off, nudging each other and what I call 'kissing' each others flanks. It was so gentle and loving. Really nice to watch

I got a new camera a few days ago and was trying to get some photo's of all my fish with it - playing around with the setting etc. I'll have to link from photobucket cos I don't know any other way but I got a few nice pictures of the angels

This one is the nicest

My first batch of angelfish eggs - Page 5 12433cf2-1691-4840-88f7-7a8eb9ba96b0_zps7u87tgtx
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Post  Pterophyllum Mon 25 May 2015, 13:02

Bristlenose looks happy too, has he got eggs under there?
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Post  Akasha Mon 25 May 2015, 15:48

hahaha... he's always laid on his back unattached to the wood. First time he did it I thought he was dead! No eggs as there's no female. He just lives under the wood with the cories that can fit in with him. I keep getting baby panda cories coming out from under there so he might be confused and raising baby cories instead lol (yes, I know that's not possible, just my joke)
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Post  Akasha Mon 25 May 2015, 15:51

I've actually just thought of the question I wanted to ask. You can see in the photo that the male has a small 'lump' on his chest. This is where the female keeps nipping him when they're in breeding mode. Is that normal? Has she created the 'lump' or is something wrong with him? He is a greedy pig and so I did wonder if it's fat but it's difficult to cut down the food when I've an entire tank to try and feed aswell as him. He's so fast and such a pig that a lot of my slower fish don't get a look in
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Post  Pterophyllum Mon 25 May 2015, 19:46

No, don't worry about the bump, he's got quite a hump, and big chests are something I associate with males with pronounced nuchal humps.
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Post  Akasha Mon 25 May 2015, 19:58

he has developed a nuchal hump at the same time aswell so now you've said that I'll stop worrying it's because the female has pecked him too much.

He is bigger than my female now too. He's also lost the black line through the eye ... or rather it's faded a lot. Some days you can just see the line and then other days I can't see it at all. I'm guessing this is all a maturing process?
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Post  Akasha Mon 25 May 2015, 20:06

I've found a better photo of him from side on. Now you've pointed it out he has got quite a pronounced hump

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Post  Deans_Angels Mon 25 May 2015, 21:22

Akasha wrote:I just thought I'd mention it...

No problem, thanks. Hope I didn't sound ungrateful!

Hey those fish are looking nice Smile

I would love a nice camera for the fish but it would probably have to be a Nikon / Cannon DSLR so that the lenses can be fiddled with to get the level of detail and clear focus I want.

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Post  Akasha Mon 25 May 2015, 21:28

my little canon powershot point and shoot has an aquarium setting which is really good. The Nikon bridge camera that I've just bought doesn't have that setting. Not sure if that helps you decide on which to look more into

You wern't ungrateful so no worries, and thanks. Both are definite adults now and they seem really bonded at the moment so maybe the next lot of eggs will do better Smile
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Post  Akasha Thu 09 Jul 2015, 09:46

I suspect my pair are considering spawning. I noticed yesterday that female was showing the edge of her breeding tube but I didn't get excited as she's done this before and not laid eggs. This morning I walked into the room to find the male and female in full lip lock - I've not seen them like this for months. They carried on lip locking on and off for about 15 minutes and now they are following each other around the tank. I'm wondering if they are deciding on the safest place to lay eggs.

I'll keep an eye on them but I do suspect I'll be seeing a spawn soon.

Incidently, can anyone advise me on the possibility of taking the eggs away from them as soon as they are fertilised. I ask because on each occasion the male has eaten the eggs when the tank lights go out for the night. I'm not able to remove him as they are in a community tank and I don't have a space for a tank large enough for him now.
I do have a small 30 litre tank that I use for fry and I have considered the possibility of removing the eggs and trying to hatch and raise them myself away from Mum and Dad and my the rest of my community fish
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Post  Deans_Angels Thu 09 Jul 2015, 13:43

If you're going away on holiday over the next few weeks and can't get anyone to assist while you're away, cancel the whole idea now.
Maybe they liked the waterchage Smile

Key to setting up a new aquarium is having a mature fine sponge filter. I have done it in the past without, it just involved using the parent tank as a source of 'new to them' water.

If you don't have a mature sponge filter, buy one and set it running in the main tank, so that, at some point in the future, you can rely on it to get a tank up and running.

When in supermarket / chemist, buy some vinegar (21p) and some sterilizing tablets, the ones used for baby bottles can be found in asda for one or two pounds. If you can't find the tablets, they probably sell it by the bottle, but it's normally 3+ pounds.

Right now, you could trial your heater, to closely match the temps. If you know the heater is good, you don't need to do anything because you will transfer the eggs at the same point as you fill the tank. That way, no immediate temperature change.

Oh and this is the type of facility I want!
Watch Master Scalaire at work, in french language: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-WBQ23r7pw

Dean

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Post  Deans_Angels Thu 09 Jul 2015, 13:53

Another video I like and have watch a few times :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTAbuTYGk0M


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Post  Akasha Thu 09 Jul 2015, 17:37

Hey Dean .. I've raised cories in this little tank - from eggs to large enough to be sold to the lfs. I've also raised some cuviceps fry and a couple of bolivian ram babies too so I'm well versed in setting up a fry tank.

My only worry is taking the eggs from the parents, can the eggs survive without the parents to care for them? With my rams and curvi's I let the eggs and wrigglers stay with mum and dad as both were good parents and great at guarding them. The point at which they lost them was at free swimming stage as my tetra's and harley's would feast on them during the night. Pulling the eggs from the angels straight after fertilization seems like a plan in this case seen as the male is likely to eat them again. If I had the space I'd move the angels into a tank alone and then remove the male back to the large community tank leaving just the female with the eggs. Due to lack of space this isn't an option but I have got space for the little 30 litre. I'm also a little concerned it won't be big enough for angel's once they are growing out.

Basicly these are the questions I need answered.

I have a sponge filter and a heater etc ... no problems there Smile
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Post  Deans_Angels Thu 09 Jul 2015, 19:59

Okay, here goes...

- yes the eggs can survive without the parents, when the eggs are in their own tank they don't need guarding from other fish, which is mainly what the parents do. You will most likely need to clear the white eggs off, at least twice a day. The quicker you remove the white eggs, the better chance the others have of surviving. 1 bad egg spoils the others around it, as you will see if you don't remove it.

- a 30lt tank is fine while they're small, depends how many hatch as to how long you can keep them in it. As a rough guess, I'd say you'd get about 1 month out of it.

See how things work out, it's a long road... but I will always try and help you out.

This is the video I had in mind for you just now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0MKwyHtw5Q

:-)


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Post  Akasha Thu 09 Jul 2015, 20:17

okay ... so now I'm running through my mind the possibilities. If they can stay in the 30 litre for a month will they be large enough by then to go into my main tank (rio 240) without fear of being eaten? I'm just trying to work out what I'm going to do with them once they out grow the 30 litre.

If that's not possible then I'm probably going to have to leave the parents where they are and let the eggs/fry take their chances. Such a shame I have such a lack of space here. I have a Juwel Rekord 800 sitting empty in my shed and that's perfect for the job I want to do but I've nowhere to put it now since I re-arranged my living room
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Post  Deans_Angels Thu 09 Jul 2015, 21:29

I suspect that at 1 month old, the larger fish in the aquarium, including their parents would just chase and nibble at them until they die.

If you get them to 3 or 4 weeks old, I have some space to grow them on here. We can talk about that in 4 weeks!

Very Happy

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Post  Pterophyllum Thu 09 Jul 2015, 22:23

I've no practical experience of raising the eggs away from the parents, but many breeders follow that approach. However, if using a 30 litre tank you will need to progressively thin the youngsters down to about a dozen individuals, which providing you carry out regular water changes should be OK for about 3 or 4 months, by which time they should be OK to introduce into the main tank with their parents.
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Post  Akasha Thu 09 Jul 2015, 23:40

okay thanks. If I can get there the young will be going to my lfs for sale as they have requested some ... but all that depends on so many things I can't really control.

My female still seems to be considering a spawn. She did look like her breeding tube had moved a little more earlier but as I said earlier - she's done this before and then changed her mind so I'm not going to get excited until I see it fully down

I'll keep you all informed Smile
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Post  Akasha Fri 10 Jul 2015, 19:30

just spotted my male cleaning a leaf ... another sign that they're thinking about spawning. Her tube is a bit further out tonight too... time to start getting excited maybe bounce
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